5th Gear is hard to find [Archive] (2024)

japhy

15th April 2024, 10:13

Curious if anyone has a suggestion for this. 5th gear is so difficult to get into in my car. If I move the shifter to the right, it goes too far, and it seems like there is almost half of a gate above Reverse.
So, when shifting from 4 to 5, I have to be really deliberate about finding where the gate for 5 is. Sometimes, by the time I find it, I've lost so much speed I need to go back to 4 anyway. Which is hilarious for passengers and frustrating for me.

The bushing/turret fluid were replaced about 2k ago when I had the clutch replaced.

raf

15th April 2024, 13:54

IDK. As per recent post, if former plastic shifter bushing was fractured, consider looking inside shifter turret for fragments which prevent 5th gear access.

Always been a fan of "direct" shift lever engagement with shifter forks. Not so much a fan of remote Miata "shifter turret" mechanism.

japhy

15th April 2024, 14:50

Lance Schall

15th April 2024, 15:22

Thanks for the response! It's not so much that I can't get into 5th.
It's that I can push the shifter way too far to the right. And then up a bit. So it feels like I'm where 5th should be (at the end of the throw to the right), but if I move the shifter up, there's no gear there. I have to move back to N, and find the spot on the shifter between 3rd and this dead zone. I know a video would be really helpful here. But i have no idea how to upload one.Sit in the car with the engine off and clutch pedal depressed fully. Shift into each year, in order, several times; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and repeat. the shifter will baulk at first but after 10 times around the pattern the synchros will line up and it should shift smoothly into each gear. Now, in the quiet of the garage, with the engine still off, no noise and vibration, you can slowly and carefully move the lever from neutral to 3rd and neutral to 5th and feel the linkage and gates for issues. Start by moving the lever only left and right. It should be spring loaded to return to center, right between 3 and 4. Pulling to the left compresses a spring. To the right compresses a spring. Further right, slightly, a stronger spring to get to the R dogleg. When driving are you squishing this spring before pushing forward? Too far. The pattern is not a 3 legged H, reverse is sort of sticking out a little further.

Also, if something is broken and block motion, you may be able to find the symptom this way.

Lance Schall

15th April 2024, 15:30

raf

17th April 2024, 09:34

Nice thought perhaps. The turret is not a freak Miata idea. MG Midget, Healey 3000, Sunbeam Alpine, Jaguar XKE and others have turret. Or similar. If I recall the Jag is a very short version. Some older US examples like early Corvette, Mustang, and Falcon have external linkages on the outside of the transmission. Off the top of my head I'm not coming up with any sports car example of lever engagement directly to shift forks. I've worked on a couple ancient trucks that did this though...

Volvo P-1800

Lance Schall

17th April 2024, 10:07

Gord96BRG

17th April 2024, 12:02

Lance's diagnostic procedure is great, and should help isolate the issue. An additional consideration:

The bushing/turret fluid were replaced about 2k ago when I had the clutch replaced.

What bushing did you use? I had a similar problem years ago with my 5 speed; I had switched to a brass bushing but after a year or two the shifter started exhibiting a similar behavior to what you describe. A simple bushing replacement solved it - I went to the Delrin shifter tip bushing from MiataRoadster (https://miataroadster.com/products/ols/products/mazdashifters-shifter-tip-bushings)

raf

17th April 2024, 13:19

I figured you had one example up your sleeve.:D I found pictures of a Volvo with a four mile long shift lever, yes. A 122 wagon I think. But, also specific spec sheet labelled P1800 picturing a four mile long extension housing. Did Volvo change during the run? If so, which was first? Or are different options in different Volvo models?:cool:

Volvo 12X series was predecessor of 14X series of Volvos "X" being number of doors.

It's been decades, but my Volvo 142S had no such extension housing, and I don't believe the 1971 P-1800E had one either. Pic shown is for P-1800S.

I could be wrong on some or part of this, but the ginormous shifter lever was replaced with a much shorter one.

At any rate, the Shift lever being directly connected to the shifter forks was direct, and trouble-free.

I serviced a number of these transmissions and overdrive units, and retrofitted at least three of them into cars which did not originally have OD units. It was fairly easy and surprisingly cheap to do so, when salvage yards had plenty of them.

Nowadays, not so much.

Lance Schall

17th April 2024, 13:28

raf

17th April 2024, 14:15

I never knew the X was the number of doors. My mother had a 145E wagon when they were new. Sadly burdened with an A/T and no Layco*ck overdrive.

A very early 1970s Volvo 162x/164x six-cylinder car "X" in this case indicates fuel induction type, with letter "E" indicating fuel injection, "S" indicating carbs (same as with other Volvos.) and with perhaps 10-1 compression ratio, and Manual trans with OverDrive would be a cool "retro" car.

Engine is built with width of rod journals which exceeds a lot of main crank journals on V-8 engines.

They rust-out a little less than most cars, but always a factor.

Such cars MUST, repeat MUST have decent anti-sway bars, shocks, modern alloy wheels, and decent tires in order to have "pretty damn good" handling. That done, they will handle quite well for coupes/sedans.

IPD in Portland OR used to be the "go-to" people for Volvo stuff.

Just sharing. I doubt either of us has the time or money for such a project. For my part, I "wish" my inherited 1996 Honda Accord had a 6-cyl engine and manual transmission. Dreams.

raf

17th April 2024, 15:49

Getting back to Miata shifter turrets, (shifter extensions) specifically shifter turrets which have leaked out the gear oil within the turret, I have some observations.

1) Eliminating gear oil leaks is usually only possible when trans is removed from car, and turret gaskets are then subject to replacement. It "may" be possible to slightly tighten turret to trans body bolts with "appropriate" tools, but that's "Iffy" with trans still attached to engine. FWIW, these gaskets seem to leak over time, and IMHO of somewhat questionable worth.

2) Damaged components within shifter turrets must be repaired. Nylon bushing often cracks over decades. Some folks prefer new nylon bushings, some prefer properly and carefully-fitted bronze bushings. Take yer pick. FWIW, I chose "carefully fitted" bronze bushing.

3) Don't forget to replace inner and outer shifter boots as needed. Some "Boot Kits" are better than others. Shop around.

4) My own opinion is that if shifter turret is definitely leaking, then repairing any and all defective components within the shifter turret is mandatory, since they are worn, and lack the benefit of (leaked) lubricant as originally intended. Springs/bushings/inner/outer boots. Whatever is likely to be needed in the future. Do the whole job right once and likely not to revisit soon.

5) IMHO, forget liquid gear oil inside the turret (probably leaking) and pack the turret with appropriate synthetic grease, making sure all components are fully "packed" with grease before assembly.

Doing so will likely last a lot longer, and protect the shifter mechanism better, than a shifter mechanism which has leaked out all lubricating liquid gear oil.

Now, I sure can be wrong, but I'd be obliged to folks who can show decent evidence showing me wrong.